Transcript: Owasso Police Interview with Nex Benedict

And their mom, Sue.

The interview was released on YouTube by Owasso PD. This is my own transcript, compiled for use and reference later, but I thought it would be useful to others as the video can be hard to watch. To be clear: there’s nothing on the video itself that’s particularly distressing except that, one, Nex is constantly referred to as, “she,” and, two, we know that less than 24 hours later Nex will die. Just knowing that can make the video a hard watch, but also some of the lightness of the interview seems retroactively inappropriate. As for deadnaming and use of feminine pronouns, all I can say is that if you watch the video, Nex is very easygoing about it, not objecting once. Being a trans or non-binary teen can be difficult, and lots of compromises are made. This might have been difficult for Nex, but they chose not to fight that battle just then, or it might have been no big deal — either naturally, or just because they’re used to having less respectful pronouns used by ignorant but well-meaning people. I don’t mean to minimize how the conversation can sound to trans people (and how it falls on my own ears), but I want to be careful not to object to how Nex is treated when they, themselves aren’t objecting. We know that they objected to the name calling and insults and bullying and to the fact that they “got jumped”. I’m going to choose to focus my outrage on that for now, and not on Sue Benedict’s use of pronouns, or Officer Thomson’s. Because two people use the last name Benedict, I’m just going to label their communication “Nex” and “Sue”. Officer Thompson is simply labeled “Ofc”.

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Ofc: Hey, stranger.

Nex: Hey! Mr. Thompson!

Ofc: I’m… Mom? I’m Thompson. We spoke on the phone the other day.

Sue: Yes.

Nex: [laughter]

Nex or Sue [hard to tell]: I’m glad you’re here.

Ofc: What happened today?

Nex: I got jumped.

Ofc: Tell me about it. What happened?

Sue: She said, “Mom. These three girls are just —. They won’t leave me the fuck alone. They’re making comments, they’re yelling, they’re calling us names. They’re throwing stuff at us. And this is in ISD. I’m like, well who’s over this place. I said, “Ignore it, Dagny. Get above it. You know, just ignore it.

Ofc: Sure.

Sue: She did until she couldn’t in the bathroom, and they said that there was three girls that were on top of her just beatin’ the crap out of her. And I said, “Okay, so what are we doing about this?” “Oh, well in a couple days we’ll talk about it.” I said no, I want something different.

Ofc: Who— who said in a couple days?

Sue: The— The principal. Why are they saying that? I said I think we need to have a police officer. It’s assault because she never touched them. She never touched them. Now she did—

Ofc: Based on your understanding?

Sue: Yeah. Now she did, uh, and it’s, everyone has said it, she did throw some water at them because they, you know —

Ofc: So let me, and I appreciate, mom, you filling it in, but miss Dagny, why don’t you tell me

Sue: Okay, I’m done, sorry.

Ofc: No, you’re good, mom. You’re good.

Sue: Okay, I’m just mad. I’m very mad.

Ofc: Sure, sure. And I don’t want to cut you off, but I like to hear from, especially the older they are,

Sue: mmhmm

Ofc: They, they can tell me essentially what happened. So… so, let me ask you this first. And I’m taking this off of what momma just said, so to clear up the the

Sue: Confusion

Ofc: The confusion. When this first started happening, whatever this is, [?] this banter back and forth between you and the and the other individuals, did you at any point contact any school administration whether it be counsellor [name bleeped], or [name bleeped] the teacher that you know sits in that classroom, did you let any of them know at any point in time?

Nex: No.

Ofc: Okay. And I’m just asking. There’s no right or wrong, but why not?

Nex: Uh, I didn’t really see the point in it. I, I told my mom though.

Ofc: Sure, sure. But you didn’t tell the school where they could actually do something? At any point during this whole situation — and I use the word, the, the word loosely — but the bantering or whatever it is going back and forth between you guys. Obviously you know each other, obviously you both got —

Nex: We don’t know of each other…

Ofc: Well you know of each other, with the vaping situations and all that. Or?

Nex: No. Before this we had no [crosstalk] Before this ISP thing we had never saw each other. They’re freshmen, we’re sophomores. We didn’t know any

Ofc: Okay

Nex: I don’t know their names. I don’t know…

Ofc: Okay. So. So they just up and decided to start messing with you, there — Was there…?

Nex: Yeah. Because of the way that we dress.

Ofc: Okay, so you didn’t do anything at all at any point in time that would have uh — even a couple days ago, or even a month ago, or anything like that—

Nex: I don’t know these girls.

Ofc: Okay. All right. So. So they just continue to…to pick on you and pick on you and then, um, at some point you did what? What happened? They, they got up and confronted you in class or—

Nex: We were

Ofc: Or did you say it was in the bathroom? Or the

Nex: Bathroom

Ofc: —hallway? Okay. The bathroom.

Nex: We were going to stack chairs and we — after we stack chairs we went to the bathroom and I was talking with my friends; they were talking with their friends. And we were laughing. And they had said something like, “Why do they laugh like that?” and … and they were talking about us in front of us.

Ofc: Mmhmm.

Nex: And so I went up there and poured water on them.

Ofc: Okay.

Nex: And then all three of them came at me.

Ofc: You, now, you pour the water … cuz I’m, I’m trying to get this in my mind so I see it. You know, as best—

Nex: I had a water bottle.

Ofc: Thank you. That’s what I was askin’. Where did you, where did you get this water. Was it a cup you found? Was it in your water bottle?

Nex: It’s my, uh—

Ofc: Your daily water you carry?

Nex: Yeah. I do. It was a plastic water bottle.

Ofc: Okay. Fair enough. So you squirted them with water or threw water or whatever it was. Okay. Okay, then at that point what happened?

Nex: Uh, they came at me. They grabbed onto my hair. I grabbed onto them. Uh, I threw one of them into a paper towel dispenser, and then they got my legs out from under me and got me on the ground and started beating the shit out of me.

Ofc: Okay.

Nex: And then my friends tried to jump in to help, but I’m not sure— I blacked out.

Ofc: When— When did this happen today?

Nex: Uh, around one.

Ofc: Okay. So around lunch time?

Nex: Uh, yeah.

Ofc: Okay. Yeah. Um, so I’m gonna follow up. Mom, as far as you’re concerned I’m going to definitely follow up with the school, tomorrow morning.

Sue: Mmhmm.

Ofc: Um, to figure out because, I guess, any criminal type action the school is supposed to give us a call.

Sue: Yes, that’s right.

Ofc: Um, so, whether they just got … and I’m not making excuses for them, but I’ve seen it happen both ways, either they maybe they forgot, maybe there was other things going on. Who knows? But the fact of the matter is they they they dropped the ball on this one in not notifying me right away.

Sue: I told them—

Ofc: So

Sue: —I wanted something done

Ofc: Sure.

Sue: I said that is assault. She never laid her hand

Ofc: So—

Sue: Now she did throw the water, that was wrong.

Ofc: Well, and I’ll, I’ll explain to the criminal side of that in just a second. But as far as the school goes, um, just for what it’s worth, I just say I, I will on behalf, I will speak to the school tomorrow. Not that it’s going to make it any better, but I’m also going to gather all the information I can from all parties. Okay?

Sue: mmhmm.

Ofc: So not only talking to you guys, but I’m going to talk to all the other parties tomorrow. And their, their, um, their, uh, their guardians as well. And, and all that good stuff, okay?

Sue: Mmhmm.

Ofc: But yes, typical— they’re supposed to. But they’re human.

Sue: I know, but if I tell them, why wouldn’t they do it?

Ofc: I I I don’t know. I can’t account for, for that. [crosstalk] I don’t know. I don’t.

Sue: And they told me I had to wait…

Ofc: But also, mom. And, and again, I’m not taking their side or anything, I’m just telling you, just just parent to parent kind of thing, adult to adult, there’s nothing says that you can’t pick up the phone either.

Sue: That’s why I did from —

Ofc: But I mean, before even being here, at the school. Hey, uh, 911. I’m at whatever school, I’m at the West Campus. I’ve asked the school to contact one of the school resource officers.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: They’re not doing it, what I — uh, in a timely manner, dispatch me one out. Then they get on my main side channel, “Hey, Officer Thompson? Come out.” Just like right now. “Officer Thompson, we’ve got a student with an altercation situation that happened at the West Campus sometime today. Can you go follow up now at the ER?” So that that, that’ll just get me to the to the high school, uh, that much quicker.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: For, for your preference.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: You see what I’m saying?

Sue: Okay, so I should’ve went ahead and did it.

Ofc: If the school, If the school does not want to call, you have every right as a guardian

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: Say, “I want a police officer.” If the school’s not going to do it, fine. You, you take the initiative. You pick up the phone

Sue: Okay

Ofc: And you go ahead and call and say, “I would like an officer here.” They can’t — they. I will show up.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: Okay. So it doesn’t matter if it comes through the channel of the school or the channel of the city. I will get both feeds. I will be there one way or another.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: So, just food for thought for the future.

Sue: Okay. Well hopefully it doesn’t happen again.

Ofc: Just anything in life, you know?

Sue: Yeah.

Ofc: Um. Now as — as to the specifics of the criminal crime, okay, I’m — this is what I’m going to tell you. Yes, I can technically do a report for the assault and battery. Absolutely, okay?

Sue: Mmhmm.

Ofc: Um. Because it’s unwanted touching of one individual to another. They put their hands on you, okay? And it was unwanted.  I will also tell you that, though, they will say what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Meaning the way you, the way the courts are going to look at it is it’s a mutual fight. Okay? So both parties are victims, but both parties are also suspects in this. You get what I’m saying?

Sue: Yes.

Ofc: Your offender as well. So I will absolutely do a report if that’s what you want, I can do — okay? But I’m just letting you know. The other party wants to do the same thing. She’s going to be, uh, the assault will be on her as well, um, because she first assaulted. She was the one who initiated it, essentially. Because you got freedom of speech. You can do all this all day long. The action of physically—

Sue: Water.

Ofc: The moment she threw that water, you’ve now assaulted somebody. You made the first jab. Just because it doesn’t make it right, but they, “defended themselves,” quote unquote. You retaliated back. Now we’ve got this back and forth when both parties had equal opportunity to separate. So that’s where I’m saying it’s … it’s not going to be in the best of light for you, but I can absolutely do that if that’s what you like. I’m just telling you, it may not go the direction you want it to go. I am not the judge. I am not the jury. I’m here to just say this is the facts. This is what’s presented. But mom, as guardian because essentially a juvenile cannot make that legal decision,

Sue: Mmhmm.

Ofc: If you want to proceed with it, absolutely. I will have you write out a statement. I’ll document it. But I’m going to have to do the same thing for them. And if they say that — I’m going to gather their information as well and based on her own admittance on camera as well as whatever else, she essentially started it.

Sue: Yes.

Ofc: You see what I’m saying? So, so I’m not trying drag [drive?] her under the bus or anything like that. I’m just letting you know this is what will probably happen going forward.

Nex: Yeah.

Ofc: But I can absolutely do that if that’s the documentation that you would want through the criminal side. Now. Through the school side, the school has their own. It’s a zero tolerance, just like the vapes. If— all parties involved, everyone gets in trouble. With this one it’s more of we’re going to see, we’re going to cut down and see what elements meet any kind of specific crime. Um, if she was… When she was first explaining to me, “Hey, I didn’t do a dang thing, minded my own business, I went to the bathroom, they followed me in and they attacked me.” Okay, she’s a true victim of assault and battery.

Nex: Mmhmm.

Ofc: She did nothin, but the fact that she threw that water

Sue: Uh huh.

Ofc: It kinda—

Nex: yeah.

Ofc: It kind of puts her —

Sue: Even though she didn’t put hands on them?

Ofc: It’s still assault and battery. It’s assault. Cuz the water.

Sue: The water.

Ofc: You see what I’m saying? If you had not have done that, absolutely. Victim all day long, and I got you.  And I still got you, because I’m here to just put the facts down. I’m not here to—- But I’m just telling you, this is a good chance of the direction it will go when it goes to the ADA or when it goes to the judges. They’re going to look at it and say, okay. Let’s break it down piece by piece, element by element. Who actually started the situation? Running the mouth is freedom of speech.

Sue: yes.

Ofc: Unfortunately. You can say mean, hurtful things all day long.

Sue: Mmhmm.

Ofc: And you gotta let it roll off your shoulder. The moment someone retaliates or does something physically —

Sue: Mmhmm.

Ofc: —or a directed threat—

Sue: Yeah.

Ofc: Now you have something. Throwing that water on there? Just cuz it’s water doesn’t make it any better. It could have been urine. It could have been paint. It could have been anything.

Sue: What about, because there were three of them? And she only threw water on one.

Ofc: Doesn’t matter. I mean, it matters for the school. The school’s going to, to— Everyone’s going to be disciplined that — everybody that went in there, everyone that was in her, her group, everybody that was in the other group, doesn’t matter if there’s 30 of them fighting — they’re all going to be disciplined in the school. From a criminal side of things, it doesn’t make it okay you had three versus one, it doesn’t matter. What matters is who started it. And how what, where where, how bad of a situation, like was there weapons involved, was there not? Things like that, okay?

Sue: Yes.

Ofc: But, but the biggest part is the fact that it’s a mutual fight so they all are victims, but they’re all suspects. But she’s in a little bit more of a situation because she’s the one who started it by throwing a object or an item onto another individual.

Sue: Yeah, yeah.

Ofc: Starting the incident. She she’s she’s the one who started the domino effect.

Sue: Yeah.

Ofc: If she had never done that, and I’m not blaming you—

Nex: I know.

Ofc: If you had not have done that, we may not even be here. Or they would have went ahead and did their thing to you, you know. Okay, now, again, I was in the bathroom with my friends minding my own business, they started yapping, we started yapping, but nothing happened, then they threw us in the wall. Okay. Now I have where, again, a true victim. But again, “I’ll show you,” essentially, “shut your mouth,” as you hit them with the water

Nex: Okay.

Ofc: does not give them the right to do it, by any means. It still does not give them the right to put their hands on you, at all. That’s why I say they’re just as guilty as you are. 100%. It’s just, I hate to see you both, uh, criminally-wise, get hung up on something so miniscule. But I am here to do that if that’s what you like.

Sue: Okay, what I want done, or what I would like done, and I hope you agree, is that you go to the school and find out why they did not call you.

Ofc: Mmhm.

Sue: And, and. You know what I mean? I want that to be known, because they are in the wrong for that.

Ofc: Oh, I I agree with you. I, I—

Sue: I was wrong. I should have… I didn’t know I could right there and then. They said okay, well in 24, 48 hours when I get all of our statements and this and that, then we’ll call someone in, if you want. And I, I’m like, okay. I thought that’s the way it was done. And then I talked with my sister and she said, “No, when you take her up there, get someone up there right away.”

Ofc: Yeah. Um, and I will certainly absolutely have their talk. Um, and I will document my own internal — with my notes — because again, this… there’s a digital call here for this.

Sue: Mhm.

Ofc: So, so it’s not like there’s no … I mean, it’s not a formal report, but there’s a digital. And in that note, I’m going to explain, you know, I’ll put in there the fact that I explained the options to you.

Sue: Mmhm.

Ofc: You chose, hey, we’re, y’know, and I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but essentially you do not want a formal char— uh, prosecute right now.

Sue: Yeah.

Ofc: And right now you would rather handle it civilly.

Sue: yeah.

Ofc: Internally, if you will.

Sue: Yes.

Ofc: Between parent guardian and the school.

Sue: yes.

Ofc: Okay, um…. Doesn’t mean you can’t civilly sue them. It doesn’t mean that you can’t have protective orders against them. I’m just giving you those options.

Sue: I just want those girls to know, they need to, because they actually started everything from the get-go.

Ofc: Okay.

Sue: The— they, you know, from what I understand from, um, talking with uh, the friend — y’know I know all the girls —

Ofc: Okay.

Sue: —and she told me, and then separately she told me, and the stories — I mean, it wasn’t like they were together saying

Ofc: Okay

Sue: this is what happened.

Ofc: Right. And and that’s my plan is to find out tomorrow with the admin, what is all going on from all sides, all corners.

Sue: There you go.

Ofc: And if I can get additional facts of anything, mom, uh, I don’t have a problem. I’ll contact you and let you know, hey, look, —

Sue: —I’m not—

Ofc: —there’s more—

Sue: —I want, um,—

Ofc: more to the story or this is what is believed to be.

Sue: I want the parents to know what, uh, yeah

Ofc: and, and,

Sue: I want the parents to know also what their girls are doing.

Ofc: So, so…

Sue: Right?

Ofc: And so with that, uh, because it’s a juvenile, I can’t tell you what is—

Sue: No! I I just want you

Ofc: So, so what I can tell you is I will be in on conversations with the school, however that capacity may be

Sue: Yeah.

Ofc: with the parent.

Sue: Yes.

Ofc:  So, so if I’m able and I have the ability to sit down with parent and say, look, this is what’s what, which is what hoping for, then absolutely.

Sue: Yes.

Ofc: If it’s a situation where it’s already been handled for whatever reason and I’m behind on catching up to all that, I’m not going to call parents in after the fact and rehash everything all over.

Sue: Yeah.

Ofc: But with you I don’t mind calling and saying okay, look, this is what the school said, this is the information I’ve gotten. Um. Mom, this is where I’m at now at this point, kind of thing.

Sue: Mmhmm.

Ofc: I have no problems with that.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: And, and if you decide to change your mind, I mean— Tomorrow morning when I call you, mid-morning, y’know, before noon, if you say hey, look, I slept on it I really feel like I want to go ahead, and — absolutely, mom.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: Then, then you can come up to… I can actually, I can send you an e-mail with a digital, um, so you don’t have a, a hard copy here. I’ll send you a digital print of our witness statement.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: You can fill that out on her behalf —

Sue: Mmhmm.

Ofc: —of what she told you, kind of thing. Um. I don’t know if she’s, are you going to be at school tomorrow, or…?

Sue: No.

Ofc: Okay, they’re going to keep you …

Sue: They suspended her.

Ofc: Okay. [Crosstalk] So, well, and again that’s that’s the school thing. But you’ll be home, so if you say, look, I was restless sleeping last night. We we we think we’d rather go ahead and do it, not a problem.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: I’ll still take care of you. I’ll just reopen this call. I’ll start a report. I’ll send you an e-mail. You can fill it out with her, um, what she says. Don’t ad lib. You know?

Sue: No.

Ofc: Just put, uh, but, you know, um, put the facts, um, and I will be asking you that when I call you. That’ll be the first thing I ask you before I give you additional information.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: Because I don’t want to sway you one way or another.

Sue: Yes.

Ofc: Um, well here’s additional facts. Oh, well then this, that, and the other. Um. I would say, Mom, you’ve had 12 hours to sleep on it. As a guardian, what do you want to do as a parent? You make the decision, kind of thing.

Sue: Mmhmm.

Ofc: If you stand by it, I’m with you. If you change your mind, so be it. Um. And then once you send me the e-mail back and I get it all confirmed by replying back, um, with the case number and all that. So that way you have a number associated. You can go to the records and obtain that if you want. Now I won’t give you very many facts of anything. It’s going to be the basic who, what, when, where, why.

Sue: Yes.

Ofc: To everything. But, um, to to get the actual detail of everyone’s statement, um—

Sue: Yeah.

Ofc: — schools, parents, kids, all that stuff, you have to actually subpoena for it. And all that. Records Act and all that. But I don’t think that’s necessary, personally. But that’s your prerogative. Um. But I will follow up tomorrow morning with you. Sometime.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: Between 9:00 and noon.

Sue: That’s fine.

Ofc: Um. Depending on what other calls I get through the 15 schools.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: And we’ll, we’ll go from there.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: If medically here she’s got a fractured this that and the other or whatever it may be, um, that documentation … have that as well.

Sue: Yes.

Ofc: Because if… if you decide to move forward with wanting to press charges, and there is something legitimate more than just a scratch — you know what I’m saying.

Sue: ’Kay.

Ofc: You know, something that’s — then we can document that and, and go from there.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: Um. But… but I’m just giving you all uh, I’m just vomiting everything to you right now.

Sue: Yeah, yeah. I’m going to talk with her some more and

Ofc: Okay.

Sue: I know she’s hurting right now.

Nex: It’s bad.

Ofc: Well, I mean it always hurts when you get in a fight. Whether you’re the winner or the loser.

Sue: Yeah. [nervous laugh]

Ofc: It stresses the body out, and it’s really not worth it.

Sue: Oh, yeah.

Ofc: So, so, um… okay. Well, that’s what I’ll do, like I said. I’ll I’ll get with the school as soon as I can in the morning.

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: Um…

Sue: Thank you.

Ofc: try… try and get what I can and we’ll go from there.

Sue: Chastise them for not calling. [laughter]

Ofc: Well, we’ll definitely have a talk about that, because they know better and and and I will say, for what it’s worth, um, [name bleeped], I’ve worked with her for five years

Sue: Uh huh.

Ofc: She’s usu—- she’s typically spot on. Meaning the… the one who was with us in, in uh—

Sue: I, I met her.

Ofc: She is one, she’s one of the best in that school of

Sue: Yeah, yeah… That’s why I don’t understand.

Ofc: Yeah. So, so, if I was a betting person, I would venture to say that there was something else a bit more precedent, you know, that was going on. Not that this was not, but … I think, you know, like anything, maybe it was a little overwhelming. Maybe she had something else going on.

Sue: Mmhmm.

Ofc: And it just slipped her mind, probably.

Sue: I know.

Ofc: Um. Because as soon as I I sent her a text message I said, “Do you know anything about a fight at the school, because I’m going to the ER?” And she goes, “Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, yes.” Um. “Can I call you to get the rest? I’m pulling into the ER now. I, I’ll get with you tomorrow.” And she’s like, “Okay, I’m so sorry, yes. There was an incident at the end of the day. Um, I’ll get with you tomorrow.” And I was like, “Get ready to fill out statements and everything else, because I need to know details.”

Sue: Okay.

Ofc: And she said, “Yes sir, I know.” Um.

Sue: Alright, thank you.

Ofc: If it was any other individual I may be a little more harsh about it, but she’s usually on her toes.

Sue: Alright.

Ofc: Usually. So. But, I’ll get with you, mom.

Sue: Alright. Alright. Thank you so much.

Ofc: Yes, ma’am.

Sue: Thank you for coming up here. It’s nice to meet you—

Ofc: Nice to meet you in person. Good luck to you.

Nex: [unintelligible]

Ofc: I’ll see you around.

Nex: Probably. No.

Sue: Well, yeah, hopefully not.

[laughter]

Ofc: Well, not in a bad way.

[laughter]

Ofc: I mean, hopefully I see you around school, and class, and wandering the halls, and all that good stuff.

Nex: Yes.

Ofc: You can smile and wave and say, “Hey, Thompson.” And you know, all that good stuff. So.

Sue: Yeah.

Nex: Alright.

Ofc: Alright. You guys have a good evening.